Where Do You Place Matt Serra in the Rankings ?

[Rich_Davie]

I know I'm in the minority in regard to Matt Serra being in the top 10, but I have a difficult time trying to place him anywhere in the top 10 at all.

I just don't see how a fighter who can't finish fights (a great majority of his fights go to decisions) can be included in the top 10.

I'll say the best man won on that particular night he beat George St. Pierre, fluke or not... but I'm leaning towards fluke !!

In addition, injury or not... he hasn't fought in over a year, and prior to that when was the last time he fought !!

What's your opinion and where do you rank Matt Serra ?

[Rich_Davie]

I voted :

Not Top 10 IMO

[MMA Guru]

It's funny that you say that about Matt Serra looking at the WW division, I see only 3 whom I would consider finishing fights every single time, and the rest going to decisions. Josh Koscheck just barely had his first definitive win in like almost 2 years, and most people rank him 4th or 5th. Also, Fitch is a great example. When he fights top 10 contenders, he never really finishes. Karo, to name another. I mean, Serra is a great fighter, I think he just got a bad taste in his mouth the last go around in the UFC and I think a lot of people label him a quitter for it, knowingly or not. So I have to say with respect for the title and Gsp all in one, I'm putting him at number 2.

[Rich_Davie]

Hmmm... Some friendly brotherly debate is required I see.

Nothing more than an effort to help you understand my position in this regard, & understand your position as well.

I never realized we were so far apart in our personal determinations of the Top 10 Rankings, I'll have to take a look at your Top 10 rankings again !

You know where you can find mine !

I never stated I was basing my decision on Welterweight fighters who finish fights every single time, so I'm not quite sure how you interpreted that from my post or why it was raised as a means to rebutt my statement !?

My comment was addressing Matt Serra's inability to finish fights and no other fighter !

I'm not going to breakdown the the top 10s in this division with stats, as it would take up too much of my time... but since you mentioned Koscheck, Parisyan & Fitch above, I'll address those examples that you have chosen to compare to Matt Serra.

I have all of those fighters you mentioned placed above Serra for good reason in my personal Top 10 Rankings, that is until Serra can prove otherwise :

Josh Koscheck I have at 4th with a 10 - 2 record (83%) of which 60% are by finishing his opponents.

Karo Parisyan I have at 7th with an 18 - 5 record (78%) of which 50% are by finishing his opponents.

Jon Fitch I have at 3rd with a 17 - 2 record (89%) of which 59% are by finishing his opponents.

Matt Serra is not in my Top 10 with a 9 - 4 record (69%) of which 56% are by finishing his opponents, and IMO a lucky fluke win over GSP.

The examples that you have chosen I have placed above Serra either due to the fact that they have more experience, a better winning percentage, a better finishing percentage, or a combination of all of these reasons.

To make it bit easier to see my point I compiled this mini-spreadsheet :

[MMA Guru]

And I understand that comparing actual records is fine and all, but Matt Serra has a lot more accomplishments in martial arts than most of those guys. On top of that, I'd say that experience goes to Serra and Karo out of that entire group. All I'm saying is that fight finishing has to go to Gsp, and I really think Gsp will clean Serra's plow. However, I think Serra will remain as a guy that will float around the top 5 until he retires. Remember, Serra has been in WW title contention before and he's also had 7 fights all going to decision minus the St. Pierre fight, and he lost to guys like Karo, Penn, and Thomas who couldn't put him away. Oddly enough, his lose to Din Thomas was, by some, a rip off. I also think that his fight against Penn was a bit one-sided being all in favor for BJ Penn. I think that Matt Serra is very under rated and that his win over Gsp did not help his cause. Let me ask you this Rich, what if Serra had lost to Gsp, but then won his next two fights against top 10 contenders. Would he be in the top 10? If yes, then beating and winning the WW title doesn't make a guy top 10? If no, what does this guy have to prove in the way of being accepted in the top 10 in the world again?

[Rich_Davie]

Wow... it's way too late for me to think in terms of hypotheticals right now !

I'm gonna need to respond to this after I get some sleep and recharge my body & brain !

[leesel]

Originally Posted by Rich_Davie

Hmmm... Some friendly brotherly debate is required I see.

Nothing more than an effort to help you understand my position in this regard, & understand your position as well.

I never realized we were so far apart in our personal determinations of the Top 10 Rankings, I'll have to take a look at your Top 10 rankings again !

You know where you can find mine !

I never stated I was basing my decision on Welterweight fighters who finish fights every single time, so I'm not quite sure how you interpreted that from my post or why it was raised as a means to rebutt my statement !?

My comment was addressing Matt Serra's inability to finish fights and no other fighter !

I'm not going to breakdown the the top 10s in this division with stats, as it would take up too much of my time... but since you mentioned Koscheck, Parisyan & Fitch above, I'll address those examples that you have chosen to compare to Matt Serra.

I have all of those fighters you mentioned placed above Serra for good reason in my personal Top 10 Rankings, that is until Serra can prove otherwise :

Josh Koscheck I have at 4th with a 10 - 2 record (83%) of which 60% are by finishing his opponents.

Karo Parisyan I have at 7th with an 18 - 5 record (78%) of which 50% are by finishing his opponents.

Jon Fitch I have at 3rd with a 17 - 2 record (89%) of which 59% are by finishing his opponents.

Matt Serra is not in my Top 10 with a 9 - 4 record (69%) of which 56% are by finishing his opponents, and IMO a lucky fluke win over GSP.

The examples that you have chosen I have placed above Serra either due to the fact that they have more experience, a better winning percentage, a better finishing percentage, or a combination of all of these reasons.

To make it bit easier to see my point I compiled this mini-spreadsheet :

LOL mini spread sheet!! I am sorry i couldn't help but giggle!!

I voted the same as you, not in the top ten.

[MMAson]

Basically Guru has already stated the jist of my thoughts on this. Being on the ultimate fighter helped him to get the title but i think it hurt his perception by being on the show. Matt Serra is an A grade fighter. I was one of the Serra haters at first and especially by watching his fights on the show and just reading his black and white stats but once i devd back on his career through archived video I actually saw who Matt Serra was. Actually i think Guru was on your side a little bit untill i showed him the same videos that changed my opinion on him. I'm sure you've already saw these and if it takes more than this, then we'll just have to wait till saturday to see where Matt Serra stands in the likes of MattHughes, KaroParisyan, JoshKoscheck....

<div><object width="420" height="336"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x4qrvf&v3=1&related=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x4qrvf&v3=1&related=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="336" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4qrvf_yoqwuefs">yoqwuefs</a></b><br /><i>Uploaded by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/AhPloder">AhPloder</a></i></div>

go to dailymotion.com/ahploder for more vids on Serra

Oh how do i post vids?

[Rich_Davie]

You forgot to vote MMAson.

There's a thread on this :

How-To Embed Videos

How-To Embed Videos

But here's the video info :

Originally Posted by IntheLiver

FightChat supports many of the tmost popular video sharing websites, which allows you to embed their videos into your forum posts!

YouTube + Google Video
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DailyMotion
Each DailyMotion video contains a unique little code in the link of the video for example:

http://dailymotion.com/video/x4v2pn_doug-marshall-brian-stann-wec-33

To embed this specific video you would need to use the code x4v2pn with the 'dm' BBCode.

For example: [dm]x4v2pn[/dm ]

Break.com
To embed break.com videos again you need to retrieve the unique video code from the embed code of the video for example

<object width="464" height="392"><param name="movie" value="http://embed.break.com/MjU3ODkx"></param><embed src="http://embed.break.com/MjU3ODkx" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="464" height="392"></embed></object><br><font size=1><a href="http://www.break.com/index/cruise_ship_caught_in_cyclone.html">Cruise Ship Caught In Cyclone</a> - Watch more <a href="http://www.break.com/">free videos</a></font>

To embed the break.com video just copy the unique video code and enlose with the [break] BBCodes.

For example:

[break]MjU3ODkx[/break ]


Please use this thread if you want to see support for any other video sharing websites

[MMA Guru]

I mean, honestly I don't see Serra having too much trouble at least winning close split decisions if nothing else from the top 5 considered in the UFC. I don't think any one of them could put him away completely except for maybe Mr. St Pierre and even then I'm not totally sure. I think this "now" St. Pierre can.